The thing is, you can get good quality from good brands for pretty cheap aswell. The expensive part is the wheels, but if you get a Pure deck and a Fingersized setup kit you are having a great start for cheap.

And your money goes to Kerry who tries to make good products avaible from one site and furthermore runs an amazing blog.
Your money also goes to Brian who will use them to upgrade his workshop so he can offer even better decks for cheap.


The $15-25 you spend on a china setup goes into the hands of a person that cant really do anything to upgrade his products since he doesn't make them. Some of the money might be used to sending some of these horrible fingerboards out for some competition prizes, but that's not the case with most china brands. It's simply all for profit.


And the thing is, a Pure with a Fingersized kit will be less than $25 if i remember the prices right.

Mikkel S wrote:

The thing is, you can get good quality from good brands for pretty cheap aswell. The expensive part is the wheels, but if you get a Pure deck and a Fingersized setup kit you are having a great start for cheap.

And your money goes to Kerry who tries to make good products avaible from one site and furthermore runs an amazing blog.
Your money also goes to Brian who will use them to upgrade his workshop so he can offer even better decks for cheap.


The $15-25 you spend on a china setup goes into the hands of a person that cant really do anything to upgrade his products since he doesn't make them. Some of the money might be used to sending some of these horrible fingerboards out for some competition prizes, but that's not the case with most china brands. It's simply all for profit.


And the thing is, a Pure with a Fingersized kit will be less than $25 if i remember the prices right.

True, but I guess the only real way to fix this is to educate the people who are new to the scene.

MrsKatmus wrote:

Nathan, pretty sure that this ^^^ is overly aggressive and hostile. Maybe proof read before you post?

Anyway, I feel this thread has often totally off topic. It's sad that Thomas has lost his job, but glad that he's not taken it personally. Getting laid off isn't any fun, especially by friends.

He was obviously speaking about his posts in a past tense, once you get pissed off about someone you tend to lash out, lots of people do it, like when Seamus just said something not constructive to the conversation, before you go defending him, You should Read what others say a little better

huggiemanbearpig wrote:

MrsKatmus wrote:

Nathan, pretty sure that this ^^^ is overly aggressive and hostile. Maybe proof read before you post?

Anyway, I feel this thread has often totally off topic. It's sad that Thomas has lost his job, but glad that he's not taken it personally. Getting laid off isn't any fun, especially by friends.

He was obviously speaking about his posts in a past tense, once you get pissed off about someone you tend to lash out, lots of people do it, like when Seamus just said something not constructive to the conversation, before you go defending him, You should Read what others say a little better

Not constructive to the conversation? This thread is simply to point out that BRR is laying off staff, and now it's become Nathan's soapbox to shout about how pissed he is. He says Woodywoods are great, I said they're crap. You could shave four pages of bull from this topic and no one would even notice.

Also, I thought you left because of...I dunno, reasons.

SeamusMcFlurry wrote:

huggiemanbearpig wrote:

MrsKatmus wrote:

Nathan, pretty sure that this ^^^ is overly aggressive and hostile. Maybe proof read before you post?

Anyway, I feel this thread has often totally off topic. It's sad that Thomas has lost his job, but glad that he's not taken it personally. Getting laid off isn't any fun, especially by friends.

He was obviously speaking about his posts in a past tense, once you get pissed off about someone you tend to lash out, lots of people do it, like when Seamus just said something not constructive to the conversation, before you go defending him, You should Read what others say a little better

Not constructive to the conversation? This thread is simply to point out that BRR is laying off staff, and now it's become Nathan's soapbox to shout about how pissed he is. He says Woodywoods are great, I said they're crap. You could shave four pages of bull from this topic and no one would even notice.

Also, I thought you left because of...I dunno, reasons.

The first post CLEARLY discusses how Kyle feels companies like Black river need an economic adjustment

SeamusMcFlurry wrote:

huggiemanbearpig wrote:

MrsKatmus wrote:

Nathan, pretty sure that this ^^^ is overly aggressive and hostile. Maybe proof read before you post?

Anyway, I feel this thread has often totally off topic. It's sad that Thomas has lost his job, but glad that he's not taken it personally. Getting laid off isn't any fun, especially by friends.

He was obviously speaking about his posts in a past tense, once you get pissed off about someone you tend to lash out, lots of people do it, like when Seamus just said something not constructive to the conversation, before you go defending him, You should Read what others say a little better

Not constructive to the conversation? This thread is simply to point out that BRR is laying off staff, and now it's become Nathan's soapbox to shout about how pissed he is. He says Woodywoods are great, I said they're crap. You could shave four pages of bull from this topic and no one would even notice.

Also, I thought you left because of...I dunno, reasons.

my soapbox? haha, seamus your a sad motherfucker. I am the hostile one when your the one making little caddy remarks? Fucking high school shit for a 24 year old dont you think. People have an opinion you dont like and you get that bummed? Shit maybe forums arent for you, you should just start a brr forum where everryones a robot and opinions are not permitted.

Also it should be said that the market itself determines a fair price, and since there are a ton of companies now and the market is still relatively small, BRR is hands down the most expensive. So in a way they priced themselves into the bind they are in. Having said that I hope they make a comeback because they are really nice people.

I just found this thread lol ,
maybe it's just a dry spell around this time
haven't seen too many exciting things lately
he,
idk
But yea they have to live off of fingerboarding so hopefully things pick up for them

Basically everything Nathan has said.

On most forums I've been on, Nathan would have been given a short ban by now for his seriously bad attitude. Acting like a petulant little kid, and generally being an arse to people who question you (I'm expecting a flurry of insults) is immature, and way out of line. You need to think about how your presenting yourself to everyone dude.

Regardless, it is true that BRR COULD lower their prices. I think Justin summed it up perfectly. It may mean they sponsor less events, or send less stuff, but is that bad? I must have won something like £200 worth of BRR from MuN (BW, BRR trucks, Winklers, like 4 different boxes) which is seriously ridiculous. No way did they have to send that much.

But at the same time, BRR have done SO much for the scene. They have made fingerboarding what it is, absolutely. Also, I was so impressed at the BRR Store, because they sell so much fingerboarding stuff that BRR don't. Y-Trucks and Oaks and loads of other decks and stuff - it's more a fingerboarding shop & park than a BRR shop

Maybe one of the problems is that BRR have no competition? In a Capitalist market, competition drives down prices and makes companies more competitive and delivers the best for the consumer. Perhaps the fact that BRR have remained unchallenged has led to this situation? I mean, where else are you going to buy those sorts of ramps from? There's a few smaller rail companies etc, but I can't think of one ramp company that could in any way challenge BRR. Maybe we need to step up as a community, and offer this sort of innovation and quality that we get from Blackriver too.

I think companies need to be more self conscious too. More companies need to offer cheaper products to tempt newbies. China stuff is only appealing because of the price, not the quality! If more companies took a consciencious approach to production and pricing, they'd realise that there's a market for cheaper, perhaps less beautifully finished decks that they can sell for much cheaper. My friend I went to Berlin with became interested in fingerboarding when we were there - I suggested he got a Bollie setup, and when he saw the price he said to fuck off! Equipment sets a real price barrier for people to get into the scene - it's no longer acceptable to use a Tech Deck at all, and so people now go for China stuff.

We need to take this as a rallying cry to improve things, rather than bitch about BRR.

Thomas is leaving the job side, but is still going to be active in that company as a team rider.

Jeez.


Its like the end of the world if they, BRR, have a hiccup. The hell is the matter with you guys? Basing fingerboard on one company.

More than three people have pointed out that BRR doesnt sponsor every event. They do less than what people realize apparently. It is entirely possible to continue fingerboarding without BRR. < This sentence is based on some pseudo-quasi universe where suddenly... BRR vanished. Then suddenly... those "less-than-BRR-quality" companies show up. Ones with products by people either going to lengths to bring good products to the community, or breaking bank just to stay up due to their passion for this hobby. Dozens of companies that are known now, hundreds we likely do not even know about yet. They are simply trying to find their place in this community while being COMPLETELY overshadowed by the "top tier superior quality" of BRR.

"Maybe one of the problems is that BRR have no competition?" PPFFFFTTTT. PFT PFT PFT. BRR has competition. Honorable competition. However, let a company attempt anything BRR does; "OMG YOURE COPYING BRR". Let BRR do something another company does; "OMG BRR's IS SO MUCH BETTER". Its a mentality that BRR is the -only- company doing things for the community which casts this notion that BRR has no competition. Brr does things, but so does others. If maybe.... MAYBE... the community stopped worshiping quality and appreciated quantity, the scene would be rich with a hue of companies and people doing equal amounts for something we ALL love. Just a thought..

Now that i think about it, all the work BRR put in as a business worked perfectly. The most well known company. People buying any price dished out. Molding the community around their product(either consciously or just a happy accident)... its almost dreadfully poetic that everything crumbles with them. But i digress..

At this moment, like many other moments, i look at BRR/BW as i do TD(this is how most of use 10 years ago viewed it). They, BRR/BW, have more machines for production, more manpower and exposure than the normal fingerboard company owner has. One employee quitting/getting fired is not going to hinder me from fingerboarding. I dont care about BRR/BW's pricing issue because i dont buy their items. Do not cry to me that i do not support the damn scene. I was here when that damn phrase wasnt a marketing ploy. I will look to the scene(the fingerboarders and fingerboarding) and keep on keeping on. Encouraging people to try a new thing. Encouraging up and coming companies to have some faith, and to try and make it fun...... if thats cool with everyone else?

tidbits

@Eavorclear; Its been attempted. Since 2003 ive attempted preserving history and understanding where we have been and could go. I have went so far as to create a Wikia to house as much fingerboarding information as i can gather while opening the doors for -everyone- to pitch in. People didnt go for it.

@appleyard; I'd like to buy you a damn cake.

I meant a company which would compete with Blackriver on every level, which would push them to view them as serious competition

I'm not talking about BW - there's plenty of amazing deck brands. Ditto with WW - so many other great wheels. I'm talking specifically about Blackriver RAMPS. You wanna buy a half pipe, a stair set, a quarter, where do you go? I think it's time people stepped up to the plate in terms of ramp manufacturing, and have BRR a run for their money, in turn making BRR lower their prices, innovate more and generally do better

I know people can make their own ramps and frankly that's so much cooler and is what fingerboarding is about. But that isn't this conversation - this conversation is about why BRR are struggling in one of the greatest times fingerboarding has known in terms of exposure and participation.

Sorry if my post wasn't clear enough on that.

TraceKaiser wrote:

I meant a company which would compete with Blackriver on every level, which would push them to view them as serious competition

I'm not talking about BW - there's plenty of amazing deck brands. Ditto with WW - so many other great wheels. I'm talking specifically about Blackriver RAMPS. You wanna buy a half pipe, a stair set, a quarter, where do you go? I think it's time people stepped up to the plate in terms of ramp manufacturing, and have BRR a run for their money, in turn making BRR lower their prices, innovate more and generally do better

I know people can make their own ramps and frankly that's so much cooler and is what fingerboarding is about. But that isn't this conversation - this conversation is about why BRR are struggling in one of the greatest times fingerboarding has known in terms of exposure and participation.

Sorry if my post wasn't clear enough on that.

Aphlikshun Fingerboards makes ramps that beat BRR any day. Better quality with everything, honestly.

You're right, their ramps look amazing! That's really cool

TraceKaiser wrote:

You're right, their ramps look amazing! That's really cool

Honestly not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but yeah, I don't see how people haven't seen them as one of the bigger companies, because their ramps are da sheeeeeeit. Phil should be making a lot more money off of it.

Oh no it's not!!
I'm worried people think I'm saying "BRR is the best", which I'm not. I'm saying more companies need to provide competition on the same footing as BRR, to properly challenge them. The products are half the battle, but it needs to be the company as a whole, pushing Blackriver. At the moment, it always seems that BRR hold the standard of professionalism which people try to live up to - what, honestly, is the most professional fingerboard company you know? I think that this has lead them to stagnate, to stay in one place for too long and now they're suffering from it.

When the word professional comes in, do you mean like corporation-wise, or how you handle your customers, represent your company-wise? For instance say this is Blackriver vs. Fingersized. People who don't know about Fingersized or don't know how Kerry handles it would probably say BRR is the more professional company. But if it were anyone on this forum they would say that Kerry definitely handles it all professionally; or is that a bad analogy? If you could, define your definition of professional so we could get on the same page?

TraceKaiser wrote:

Oh no it's not!!
I'm worried people think I'm saying "BRR is the best", which I'm not. I'm saying more companies need to provide competition on the same footing as BRR, to properly challenge them. The products are half the battle, but it needs to be the company as a whole, pushing Blackriver. At the moment, it always seems that BRR hold the standard of professionalism which people try to live up to - what, honestly, is the most professional fingerboard company you know? I think that this has lead them to stagnate, to stay in one place for too long and now they're suffering from it.

Or we could just not care about BRR, not hang fingerboarding as a whole on BRR, and keep fingerboarding regardless of what BRR does.

I fail to see why any company needs to do something on par with what BRR does, to give BRR more fuel. If BRR cant do this as the mecca they are, then they wont do it period.

As its been stated, there are dozens of companies willing to do right by the community, as there are many people willing to do right by the community. Looking to BRR as some sort of pinnacle is not healthy and will only damage fingerboarding regardless of how many things BRR does. No one company needs to be in the spot light, the heart, of fingerboarding. The companies, and people, need to work together collectively and equally to make fingerboarding thrive.

But that last paragraph is basically what I'm saying?! One company being seen to be on top isn't healthy - but I do think they are more professional in practically all aspects than most other companies. Instead of saying "We'll we can just ignore it", other companies just need to step up their game.

Again, I'm talking specifically about RAMP companies here - not wheel, deck, truck etc companies!

And also, this is a thread about BRR, not about the world of fingerboarding. They are different.

Euan, you are a wonderful person.

Play more Skate 3 now.

It is a thread about BRR, not the world of fingerboarding, but the two are often linked closely. But, that is there and not here. Give small companies a chance.

Deshawn can my cake be a cheesecake?

appleyard14 wrote:

Deshawn can my cake be a cheesecake?

NEIN

you get carrot

carrot cake has a cream cheese icing so thats close enough to cheesecake for me, shit I'll take what I can get.

Blackriver are only big because they saw the bandwagon and jumped right on it. A new bandwagon comes round every year or so... One day, they will be taken over, beaten and a new brand will take its place - That brand might even be owned by BlackRiver... The fact is, we will never know the financial status of a company and company's get bought, sold re structured and all kinds of things!
In any scene we should not disregard any company or individual who is adding something to the scene - If all we do is moan, bitch and slate brands, company's and products nothing will ever change in reality, things will just keep coming and going... The main point is that if someone is doing something in a scene then it should be respected. We all have free will and therefore can pick and choose what decks, truck, wheels we all personally like. We should not judge things from others perspectives... Buy what you like, when you like because you like it... Be an individual and have individualistic though patterns lol

P.S, You all might think China stuff is rubbish and most of it will be if its price-based but seriously never is regarded the fact that nearly all of your favorite brands will have sourced something from China!

If the scene decides Blackriver should step aside, then that is what will happen... People who own company's do sell-out and brands do get devalued for many reasons not simply from what the consumers think.

One of the biggest costs for a company is wages, not a small laser machine guys...