DarianN wrote:

Just thought they could as they have like 50 employees

I could be completely wrong as I don't know what goes on at BRR. This is merely just how I'm seeing it.

Ryan wrote:

DarianN wrote:

Just thought they could as they have like 50 employees

I could be completely wrong as I don't know what goes on at BRR. This is merely just how I'm seeing it.

How can a company blatantly lie so easily?

I got this translated from German to english straight from the blackriver website

»Hand-made in Germany

In order to always guarantee the highest possible quality control of products, more than 95% of all products of our range are manufactured in Germany. Among the remaining 5% are the high quality products sales Shen Benches from Spain, FlatFace from the U.S. propaganda from the Czech Republic, etc. also experienced Fingerboarder are always involved in the production.

It just seems to wrong to tell somebody that something is made somewhere when it's not...

I don't care where it's made. It's by who it's made.

Torroija wrote:

I don't care where it's made. It's by who it's made.

then you do care where it's made because the person who makes it is generally going to be from that area............

What I meant is it handmade or just a factory or people who don't even know what they're making

morrowsnow wrote:

Ryan wrote:

DarianN wrote:

Just thought they could as they have like 50 employees

I could be completely wrong as I don't know what goes on at BRR. This is merely just how I'm seeing it.

How can a company blatantly lie so easily?

I got this translated from German to english straight from the blackriver website

»Hand-made in Germany

In order to always guarantee the highest possible quality control of products, more than 95% of all products of our range are manufactured in Germany. Among the remaining 5% are the high quality products sales Shen Benches from Spain, FlatFace from the U.S. propaganda from the Czech Republic, etc. also experienced Fingerboarder are always involved in the production.

It just seems to wrong to tell somebody that something is made somewhere when it's not...

Again I'm not trying to act like I know exactly what I'm talking about but people lie. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time for someone to say something that isn't true. I don't work for BRR so I'm not trying to say this is how they work.

Yea this thread isn't all about BRR and I'm not trying to start a feud, but we obviously did learn some things we didn't know before.

Would make sense if their ramps are made in china as the quality is so much worse than it was when i started out.

I have never tried BRR before.... they look good quality. but damn every 2 minutes someone's posting on this thread

I'd be so down to buy some new pro trucks from NoCo/Homewood.

SamW wrote:

I'd be so down to buy some new pro trucks from NoCo/Homewood.

Same here

SamW wrote:

I'd be so down to buy some new pro trucks from NoCo/Homewood.

Hell yea!!! That would be awesome, hopefully it would bring down BRT's prices......

SamW wrote:

I'd be so down to buy some new pro trucks from NoCo/Homewood.

Yessssss.... so excited!!

Torroija wrote:

BUT you did kinda ruin blackriver trucks for me. I'm kinda glad though because honestly they weren't any difference compared to china trucks.

With all due respect, where did you honestly think the trucks were made? Did you think they actually did this in their warehouse?


Haha I'm just saying, it is the only choice to have them outsourced, it would put them out of business to try and do all of it themselves. It would cost way too much money. And to machine each truck out of a small block of metal would also be very expensive and time-consuming.

When people describe products, pay close attention to the words used. Every word is carefully chosen. It's all a part of the marketing. For example, ever notice how often the word "special" is used on the FF site in the wheel descriptions?

Here's an example I found just by clicking on the first wheels I saw:

"FlatFace has teamed up with Blackriver to offer you a unique, specialized bearing wheel optimized for usage with Blackriver trucks. No need to use any glue or special techniques to install them, simply screw them on like any normal wheel and roll away super smooth on your new blackriver trucks. These wheels have a specially designed bearing system so that they will run smoother and faster on blackriver trucks than any average wheel on any average truck. You wont experience this smoothness anywhere else. Made with special high quality classic white material and steel bearings, these wheels are also designed with skaters in mind and has incorporated super tiny ridges into the riding surface exactly like a real skate wheel for a bit more grip. +blackriver-trucks+ not included. Not for use with any other trucks.

All FlatFace Wheels are made of special compounds and many of our colors have slightly different feelings for more variety! The Black Wheels are a variation of our D material, which is a little softer than the standard white wheels."

I mean seriously lol. You have to be ignoring it on purpose not to notice that. And I'm still curious to what makes those wheels so "special." Mike has always been smart with how he describes his products, that's why I had him sell one of my decks on ebay for me back in 2007 haha because I knew he could sell it much better than I could. He once sold a Homewood on ebay for $100.50 (that he bought from me for around $20-$25) back when I first started making decks. He is very careful and smart with what he says.

Idk if you remember when I uploaded that "Fingerboard Style and You" video on youtube but the day I uploaded it mike said on FFI that it "motivated him" to make his own video talking about style, and when he uploaded his video the very next day, he said in the description that he was sick so he made a "random video" talking about style because he had nothing else to do that day. The word "random" is another word he likes to use a lot. I know he did this because he doesn't like me lol but it still illustrates my point perfectly on his word selection - he didn't want to make any reference to Homewood or give me any credit whatsoever for inspiring him to make that video.

He knows what he's doing haha I can never discredit him for not being smart because he is. And he's sick at fingerboarding lol I can't discredit him for that either.

Going back to my original point, marketing plays a huge role in the success of products. I don't ask every company I buy products from (whether it be fingerboards, clothes, computers, golf clubs, etc.) how much it costs to make their products (although I know how much fingerboard products cost) but it would be nice if everyone were honest about where their products were made, at least for the highest priced items. Because I have a feeling (and I'm not the only one who has said this here) that certain items are much more expensive than they should be.

Finally and I'll say this one more time. Please don't get the impression that I'm trying to diss other companies to better compete. I am simply pointing some things out that you have admitted in this very thread that you haven't really though about until now. I have tremendous respect for the big companies that have done so much to advance and progress the fingerboard scene. The cheap "china companies" that don't even host events or do much of anything other than sell sell sell to as many places as possible I will admit I couldn't care less about, and I won't mind if I steal business back from them lol.

I once saw a vid how BRR ramps were made, they got precut pieces of wood iirc, i wish i can still find the vid ;(

JRskatr wrote:

Yeah that's totally cool! I'm just hoping that I can reach some new people too so they can say "I got into fingerboarding because of Homewood"

I got into fingerboarding becuse of homewood

Yea I always did notice that Mile Schnieder did use special. I remember I had a conversation with him via email and I asked him what made his wheels any better than other FB wheels and he told me:


As for blackriver I always thought it would be very wierd if they did all that melting and cutting themselves but I just never got further into questioning it

Haha see? He won't tell you what they're made of. Just like some people won't tell you where their trucks are made, or where their decks are made.. Some may even lie. I'm just focusing on me and making the best decks I can make. If I need help in the future I'll get help but I will make sure I'm in the same room when the decks are being made.

and BrorS

Damn, I have so much respect for homewood. There are plenty of companies that make their own decks but homewood is more involved in the fingerboard scene and proved many points.

Haha, IIRC, the letter for each FF wheel corresponds to the first letter of the material.
T = Teflon, is the obvious example, but it's easy enough to work out some of the others, haha.

I've always suspected that a lot of other companies don't do everything that they say so, but everyone's under their mind control I won't go into it because it'll start more agruments that I really can't be bothered with.

But yeah, can't believe that we're on the 7th page of this.
Justin isn't exactly doing that much of a bad thing by selling china decks for $10, there's people doing much worse. The people selling china decks for $5 on eBay aren't living from their 'company', whereas Justin is doing so.

Still, I've a lot of respect for Homewood, keep it up Justin!

Special....a wonderful all encompassing marketing word. Special Sauce, Special Fried Rice, 1.99 special......

Not to detract from you Justin, but NoCo wheels have previously been made from Acetal or Delrin. Nothing special really, other than being an incredibly durable material, self lubricating, chemically resistant, and easy to machine. NoCo wheels were always made in the USA, right here in Indiana to be exact.

Lab Wheels have and still are made from 2 part urethane, mixed by me, poured by me into my wheel molds, by my own two hands, and lathe finished, one wheel at a time just like real skate wheels.

All my tuning screws, washers, and regular bushings are sourced right here in the USA. Perhaps manufactured in Taiwan or somewhere, but I buy them from reputable USA companies. Original flex tape was manufactured in the USA as well. I've gotten my foam tapes from all over the world over the years. To have a really good supplier up and fold out of the blue, put me in a pickle for a while.

I have a means to manufacture my own lock nuts for trucks as well, right here at my house. As well as my own bushings I can make, in any durometer, or shape. Just haven't messed with them yet. Also slowly working on Faux Real Grip, which will be again, made right down in my basement laboratory.

So where some things are incredibly labor intensive, in the end, it's worth the pride in your product.

On the other hand, Little Johnny who wants a wooden fingerboard, doesn't necessarily see any pride in anything if he's first starting. He's not going to pay a premium price for a USA handcrafted deck his first go round. Therefore having a value priced deck, can still make him a customer of Homewood, or No Co. If he gets hyped about HW or NC, when he's ready to buy a premium handcrafted board, chances are he'll return right back to buy a HW or NC.

Getting that customer is the challenge. My old site, had over 4 million views and averaged 1500 per day in the end. I had over 8K registered customers, I guarantee, 40% or more of those customers, were potential first time customers. So where Google marketing can ensure you reach those customers, so can time. Who wants to wait 4 years though. So Justin's strategy to market on google, is very wise.

Anyone with a stack of cash, could be the next 4corner, or star or whatever, all you gotta do is import a few gaylords of mass produced fb's and set up a site, and spend some money on google. But finding a balance, where you don't specifically cash in on the same customer type everytime is the hard part. The idea of catering to the new kid, with value board so when he is ready for something better, you have it too. With 4c and star, they don't have that option. HW and myself, are merely filling that void. It's rather smart to do so if you get down to the base of things.

Continuing along with Danny and Torroija, Justin has respect coming, period. If you don't have your head up your ass, and you actually take time to know him, he is an incredible individual. His heart is completely in fingerboarding. Not just as a front to people to sell products, I know for a fact because he's my main right hand man, and having the pleasure of getting to know him, has been an incredible asset to my life. He won't tell you what you want to hear, just to sell you something, he'll tell you what you "need" to hear, and for all the right reasons, whether you buy from him or not. That's how it should be, and how I am, I swear we are brothers and don't know it...

at first i thought it was little dumb to sell china decks but hey if you can get someone into fingerboarding and doesnt want to spend lots of money thats a great way to do it, i would rather see todd and justin selling them to help support there companies then see other people that are just in it for the money, just for Brts and FF wheels i spent $105 and those are the first pro trucks you could say that i have ever bought and the second bearing wheels that i bought and thats after fingerboarding for 9 years, a new comer needs to start small then if he/she likes it buy the better stuff, i 100% support what you guys are doing for fingerboarding and the whole fingerboarding community.

Your wheels are amazing Todd, same with your other products, and the same with Justin
These companies surpass the china products and are very very high quality and made with love
<3

Guarantee a china company makes wheels for schneider.

SurfLapras wrote:

Guarantee a china company makes wheels for schneider.

And that stops them being good wheels? Why does where something is made make a difference? The US makes crap products too...