as much as I appreciate quality craftmanship.....the prices sometimes get ridiculous. Black-river always seems to mimick the Apple business model. They have set the standard (along with standard price) for alot of consumers. And for some reason everyone is quick to defend them for the price. Woodywood Fvcker Trucks are approx 20 dollars cheaper and they are not sourced from china. SO its unfair to yourselves to hold the standard at the higher price when we know it can be done cheaper. As for numbers of how much brr has actually invested into there product. Leave your speculated numbers out of it. Unless you have worked for brr in developing and cost its pretty unfair to say well this would cost this much to do and so on and so forth. That may be what it cost YOU but your naive if you think they just pay full production cost for the best everything. Companies have connections to get things cheaper, which is why they go into business. Regardless of what anyone thinks there is a business model and at the end of the day big companies are out to make money. And you have to respect that. Business is Business. Just be aware as a consumer of whats out there, Apple products just got a price cut because of their first loss in 8 years. CONSUMERS made that happen with the choice they have to buy a cheaper product that is of the same quality. Fingerboarders also have that choice and it is our responsibility to buy things that are not only a good decision to use for fingerboard purposes, but also a good decision financially. Just always consider what you can afford, not just in fingerboarding either. But smarter consumers will always result in lower prices.

i had a set of brr trucks and literally found no difference between them and tech deck trucks. i guess its on preference on what you want to buy. i dont fb really so theres no point in buying 65 dollar trucks.

Well, since I dont own or really need any apple products I guess I had a little spare cash to throw at a few "overpriced" fingerboarding bling goodies for both that brilliant grind and mucho feeling..

There is also this thing called "tolerance" in production which comes down to how precise the object being produced is. For example, you can see where different parts of tech deck trucks connect and such, while BRR trucks are literally smooth all the way around. It is difficult to get that precise with an object.

All about the craftmanship.

appleyard14 wrote:

as much as I appreciate quality craftmanship.....the prices sometimes get ridiculous. Black-river always seems to mimick the Apple business model. They have set the standard (along with standard price) for alot of consumers. And for some reason everyone is quick to defend them for the price. Woodywood Fvcker Trucks are approx 20 dollars cheaper and they are not sourced from china. SO its unfair to yourselves to hold the standard at the higher price when we know it can be done cheaper. As for numbers of how much brr has actually invested into there product. Leave your speculated numbers out of it. Unless you have worked for brr in developing and cost its pretty unfair to say well this would cost this much to do and so on and so forth. That may be what it cost YOU but your naive if you think they just pay full production cost for the best everything. Companies have connections to get things cheaper, which is why they go into business. Regardless of what anyone thinks there is a business model and at the end of the day big companies are out to make money. And you have to respect that. Business is Business. Just be aware as a consumer of whats out there, Apple products just got a price cut because of their first loss in 8 years. CONSUMERS made that happen with the choice they have to buy a cheaper product that is of the same quality. Fingerboarders also have that choice and it is our responsibility to buy things that are not only a good decision to use for fingerboard purposes, but also a good decision financially. Just always consider what you can afford, not just in fingerboarding either. But smarter consumers will always result in lower prices.

Finally someone with a valid arguement from the other side of things, not another person just saying "Yhu pey 4 deh craftmanship"


EDIT: DOUBLE POST AGAIN. Why dous this keep happenin to me  

NFBMolds wrote:

Interesting thread...
I supply custom CNC machined aluminum molds to many of the smaller companies. I have seen the decks produced by those companies and the quality is very high. For the most part it exceeds the larger companies and the prices are lower. I made and sold decks for a couple of years and it is very difficult to really make any money considering the time involved.

On the other hand the cost of developing new products such as trucks and wheels and bringing them to market to sell at a reasonable profit is very high. I worked in product development in the jewely industry for many years so I am familiar with the process. I've seen items that, after a year of development, did not sell enough to pay for the cost of bringing them to the market.

I am in the postion of selling what many people consider an expensive product. They are not aware of what it costs to buy and maintain CNC machines. If you take into consideration the time spent learning how to use the equipment and software (3 different programs), the price may not seem so high.

I don't think anybody is getting ripped off. In fact, the decks from some of the smaller companies are a bargain. As for the expensive trucks and wheels...they may seem overpriced but
considering what the development costs are and the relatively small market they are fairly priced.

Companies need to make a reasonable profit to stay in business. If they don't provide a product or service that you want at a price you are willing to pay they will fade from the scene. It is your choice.

This..

Bakko that red dripping deck,that red...That red is beautiful.

JakeC wrote:

i had a set of brr trucks and literally found no difference between them and tech deck trucks. i guess its on preference on what you want to buy. i dont fb really so theres no point in buying 65 dollar trucks.

Are you kidding? that's actually impossible

Major fingerboarding brands are overpriced. No argument is good enough to actually make me feel like I've really got the best bang for my buck when I buy a pair of BRT's.

Expensive is relative. There are professional Yoyos that go for well over $100. Table tennis blades that are $250+. I used to dump $1000's into paintball gear in high school. Fingerboarding is a super cheap hobby compared to that!

I fly gaint scale modle RC airplanes, I have 5 of them, only one airplane is worth $4000, I think fingerboarding is a pretty cheap hobbie.





for those of you that don't believe me.

It's pretty simple really. China trucks are cheap because they're easy to make and are produced in huge quantities. BRTs are small production runs and much more difficult to make. China: mass produced. Homemade stuff: someone put hours into that deck. If it takes you 3 hours to make a deck, and you sell it for $20, you're making far less than minimum wage. Really the only product I can think of that's overpriced for what it is big decks like Berlinwood and FlatFace. It's all about supple and demand, the fingerboard market for high end products is ridiculously tiny.

This is a fantastic thread

Also, the expense is not necessarily just the cost of making the product + normal markup (300% is about where you want to be)
But if you spend $7k setting up a truck company, you need to make that money back, fast. Chances are you borrowed it, and thus you're paying interest. You have to recoup what you've spent before you are even making any kind of profit. Until you get back a good chunk of what you've spent, it's hard to re-invest in improving your product.

Chris Daniels wrote:

Expensive is relative. There are professional Yoyos that go for well over $100. Table tennis blades that are $250+. I used to dump $1000's into paintball gear in high school. Fingerboarding is a super cheap hobby compared to that!

Very true point. I think everything sounds so expensive in the fingerboard scene because we are unaware of all the other scenes that are much more expensive. Like movin-like-burnie said, he has a plane that costs 4,000 dollars. When you compare that to fingerboarding, $35 isn't really much to pay for a deck.

Also, i think because so many of us have no income(No job), $35 sounds like a lot to pay for a deck.

i know people don't think to highly of me on here anymore , or maybe never did. but i do know business and you have to have money to make money simple as that. the only reason why some companies like mine are even around is because i have a job to support my hobby. some people cant afford to just give things away . i can afford to sell decks for $15 , i think $25 for a basic deck is a little high in price and thats coming from someone with a job, but i do understand the work that goes into each deck. i work 2 nights a week and only make $72 and put gas in my car and thats $37 a week . people think that its cheap to make fingerboards. wood and molds are expensive . i was watching a izilly video the only day and i saw a comment that said (Is the fingerboard business good and can you make money) the answer coming from me is it depends on how you look are things , some companies like beastpant and blosom and woob seem to be selling decks which is great . its all what the consumer wants and if they want it bad enough they will pay for it , simple as that. its anyone getting ripped off here ? no the consumer is getting the better end of the deal , plain and simple

5x4000 is 20000:o holy crap!

getting ripped off is false advertisement or someone literally just taking your money...

not a product with a high pricetag that's helping support a scene.. brt isn't a rip-off..
if it was!!.. they wouldn't be doing so well because no one would buy or support brr..

they do a SHITLOAD of things for the fingerboard community and its not like they just wipe there asses with money like a corporation does..

keelan W wrote:

i know people don't think to highly of me on here anymore , or maybe never did. but i do know business and you have to have money to make money simple as that. the only reason why some companies like mine are even around is because i have a job to support my hobby. some people cant afford to just give things away . i can afford to sell decks for $15 , i think $25 for a basic deck is a little high in price  and thats coming from someone with a job, but i do understand the work that goes into each deck. i work 2 nights a week and only make $72 and put gas in my car and thats $37 a week . people think that its cheap to make fingerboards. wood and molds are expensive . i was watching a izilly video the only day and i saw a comment that said (Is the fingerboard business good and can you make money) the answer coming from me is it depends on how you look are things , some companies like beastpant and blosom and woob seem to be selling decks which is great . its all what the consumer wants and if they want it bad enough they will pay for it , simple as that. its anyone getting ripped off here ? no the consumer is getting the better end of the deal , plain and simple

Damn, very well said.

neztek wrote:

5x4000 is 20000:o holy crap!

So is a new car. Some people like their hobbies more than new cars haha   

Kind of a weird argument if everyone keeps comparing it to other things. The question was not is fingerboarding as expensive as other hobbies...? Thats like me comparing two different sports, While im not saying your guys' other hobbies are not cool and interesting...They have nothing to do with fingerboarding and have no place for the discussion of IF fingerboarding is expensive. You can compare things to win any discussion. So I think that should be left out. Decks that are 20-30 dollars are a very reasonable price. Wheels that are 20-30 dollars are also a very reasonable price. Trucks that are over 40 dollars are just not something I see value in as a dollar amount. The other rough thing about big companies such as flatface/brr/etc. is that they cant even cover shipping. Almost any big online retailer offers free shipping now a days. I was going to buy wheel stickers from flatface one time. Shipping was 9 dollars USD. Obviously I am not about to pay that kind of shipping rate so I did not order. Now I often order grip from 4 corner fingerboards. Its the great china grip we all love and they offer free worldwide shipping on all products. Now I am not saying everyone should buy china stuff by any means. But at least if we are spending hard earned money on these fingerboard products throw us a bone with the shipping costs. Because even when you do finally save to buy those brts you've always wanted, or the flatface deck that just so happens to be still in stock when you have enough money, You get kicked in the face by forgetting that these companies want you to usually pay 10 dollars for shipping. And I know its not super crazy to ask for that small favor if 4corner can afford to do it. Brian used to do it with Pure. Fingerboard companies are so focused sometimes on having "professional packaging" or professional looking product that they forget to include professional customer service and appreciation. I love to fingerboard and always will (and have for 15 years) so as much as I don't agree with everyones pricing I usually end up biting the bullet and paying. But I also buy almost all of the stuff I own online and most of the retailers I order from offer free shipping (on stuff much heavier than a wooden deck). And if I am gonna shell out that kinda cash for some fingerboard stuff you damn well better be shipping the next day. Especially when you just want to be looked at as "professional" I didnt have time should not be a valid answer. If you charge that kind of money then you have time, and if you don't have time, don't start a company. I have paid for fingerboard products, then 5-10 dollars for shipping (sometimes more) and had the person not ship until a week later. If im paying the shipping I expect to have it done asap. There is no excuse, this is business 101. Sorry if it sounds like I am riding 4corners dick a little bit here but they offer free shipping and it 99% of the time ships next day. So listen, for company owners, if we are all going to have to agree on the prices, Please reward us with professionalism and customer service and maybe people like me will be less reluctant to give my money to you.

appleyard14 wrote:

Kind of a weird ...-....money to you.

AMEN!

The only people getting ripped off are the people that work 6+ hours on a deck and sell it for $20.

^