First of all, I want to be up front with you guys because that's just how I am with my business lol. So before you ask, YES, these decks are made in China like almost everything else we own lol.

However, what I will not do is lie to you and say I make them like many other of the new companies do that are popping up. I won't name names but it's pretty obvious to spot these "China reseller" companies. When it comes to Homewood decks, I still make them 100% by myself. I haven't outsourced any part of the production process of my decks (again like some other companies but I won't name names). I take deck-making very seriously and as long as I can physically make decks myself, I will continue to make them myself. I've been making every deck by hand since 2007 and I don't plan on stopping any time soon!

You can tell a difference between one of my decks and these decks that were made in China when you look closely at them (even easier to see in person). However for the price these decks from China are pretty decent, I myself was pretty impressed with the quality!



There are a couple sad realities that have put me in this position to sell these decks. The first being, almost every big company now outsources at least some of their deck production to China. And some new companies only buy decks from China and aren't involved in the production process at all. This allows them to have more time and money to spend on advertising and marketing (do a google search for "fingerboards" and you'll see paid ads from Flatface, 4 Corners, Phancy Fingers, Broken Knuckle, and many other companies). And as you know, businesses that advertise more and market more tend to do better, and the smaller companies that don't die off and go out of business. At the current rate, this will be the fate of Homewood Fingerboards.

So to keep a fighting chance at survival, I have decided to also carry the same decks that other companies sell, to cater to the beginner and new fingerboarders, or to those who just can't afford a more expensive deck. I am trying to stay competitive and I figure I'd rather someone buy these decks from me than from some random old guys who have never even fingerboarded before who are just in it to make a quick buck. I will also be advertising more to keep up with the other guys who are spending huge chunks of their budget on advertising. (except my chunk will be much smaller haha)

The other sad reality is again, many fingerboarders now are either brand new to the hobby or are people who don't have a lot of extra cash to spend $30-$50 on a single deck. They may just want to get their first wooden deck or want an extra setup to use outdoors or something that they won't care about if it gets all scratched up. These decks will help solve that problem since they are way more affordable. And again I'd rather them buy from a lover of the hobby/sport than from someone who just wants to make money off of a "fad" (at least that's how they see it).

So yeah, hopefully y'all won't hate on me too much for something basically every other big company does. I'm just trying to stay competitive so I can continue to do what I love and still afford to feed myself.

the rasta plies on that deck look sick! but seriously though, good move dude. It must be rough living off making fingerboards, so I don't hate on you at all.

1. You still make fingerboards by hand so you're not just becoming another distributor like you said above.

2. Lots of companies do this, so it's not really a big deal, and I don't think anyone will look down on you!

I have lots of aspiring fingerboarders coming into my highschool next year, and I will push them your way if they are in need of something new!

I know I may need an outdoor setup soon

Thanks so much dude for being so understanding I will always make my own decks because it's one of my passions and I love doing it. And you're right it is rough haha I think I maybe made $300 profit during February and March combined lol. I used to make that in a few days teaching...

I'll post what I posted on facebook here as I'd like to expand on it.

"if you put graphics on these so they weren't the same generic ebay china thoughtless bullshit.. I'd love them. right now I think this sucks and I honestly expected more from homewood - I know times are tough but we have to push forward with innovation, even if it's little things. graphic these boards up perhaps, up the price a few dorra? otherwise 99% of people in the market for these decks are just gonna go to ebay and pick up a 32mm version, and you're sat on products that are thoughtless and not helping anyone : o

/rant - obvs do as you please, and don't get me wrong I still really respect homewood.. just.. yea. you probably get what I mean "

Firstly I don't entirely hate the idea of china decks being sold, nor am I under the illusion that things like bollie and close up aren't china decks - or rumours of more. I've thought of doing it but never justified it in my head morally. but for more logical, business reasons:
-you admit, as would anyone, that other companies have more marketing than you. so why is anyone going to buy these from you when they can just pick up a 4c 32mm or something? to the people who this is the kind of deck they're after, they're more than likely to go with what's well known.
-expanding on that, you need to stand out with this. 10 dollar china deck? I'm sure there's more companies trying to do that than decks I have in my room right now (I have a collection of 50 decks on my wall just to illustrate that point). what makes you stand out?

then.. working around that.
-unlike china companies, you have a brain
-unlike china companies, you love fingerboarding
-unlike china companies, you have an identity that goes back through the history of what we do.

so.. why not mix them? graphic some china decks and sell them the same arsingly cheap price -because everyone basically knows these cost like 1 dollar to buy each from wholesalers. Say a graphic is another 2 dorra.. that's still a decent profit for minimal effort. AND MORE TO THE POINT.. you stand out in a crowd of kiddies wanting cheap decks and not knowing that china decks are all the same. then you start to win, and your conscience wins by you not selling something that has no effort and thought put in at all.

I'm not at all trying to say 'HOLYSHIT TAKE MY IDEA OR YOU ARE PATHETIC' - I'm simply saying that if you're just doing the same shit as everyone else does it really do anything positive for you in the slightest? Could one not argue you're infact adding to the problem which caused you this situation in the first place? My point in short is that you have the skill to make these 928038402938 times more appealing for little effort, even if you create another sub brand so as to not tarnish the homewood brand with china decks.

either way, long live homewood.

I think you should've gotten the newer-generation 32mm china decks though. Those are of a more comfortable and realistic shape now and the shape performs extremely well. But who am I to say, right? Haha.

Hope Homewood pulls through these tough times, have you considered trying to do more advertising as well? And perhaps coming up with a few more new graphic designs (and also maybe vary a little in graphic style) for your heat transfer decks and painted decks to attract more new customers? Times have really changed and whilst most people know of Homewood from forums and word-of-mouth, the newer fingerboarders don't. And coming up with more graphics will make people's hearts itch hard to collect them. I guess I don't run a deck business that I live off of, but I'm just throwing a couple of innocent suggestions out.

Honestly if people are going to sell china products and make a profit off them I'd much rather it be people like you Justin. I think you've done way more then proved to us that you care about fingrboarding.

Maybe refinish them? Like No Comply used to do.

Either way I hope everything goes well for you.

myhotCaffeine wrote:

coming up with more graphics will make people's hearts itch hard to collect them.

Coming from a consumer, this 100% honestly works. If you create an awesome graphic, in a limited amount, they will sell out so quick, and people will be so ecstatic to get them.

I remember when I first saw a Scott B, and I flipped, I was like I HAVE to have that... and I did.

And then I rode the deck, and I was like... this is amazing... and IT HAS CATS HDSJKAFHGAJKFHGSAJKFDSHA

Really though, Hitoshi has lots of good points as does Kerry! And for future stocks, definately 32mm China's.

I hope things are taking off for Homewood, and not going downhill!

Yeah. Justin, if you're up for some collaborative work, get in touch with me. I'm sure I can try to help come up with some new graphics for Homewood decks. I'd hate to see Homewood go down.

Kerry you know Berlinwood graphics are printed in China right?

JRskatr wrote:

Kerry you know Berlinwood graphics are printed in China right?

No way??? Always thought Timo did everything...fill me in? haha, I'd like to know.

DarianN wrote:

JRskatr wrote:

Kerry you know Berlinwood graphics are printed in China right?

No way??? Always thought Timo did everything...fill me in? haha, I'd like to know.

You poor naive bastard...

Sorry for double post I posted that before reading everything else.

1) I do plan on advertising more on Google and YouTube so I can become more well-known to the new fingerboards who otherwise might go somewhere else run by non-fingerboarders.

2) I am definitely up for doing more graphics, but answer me this fellas: What "good" for the scene would it be to make a graphic and then outsource it to China to print on their China decks? To me that's the same thing as selling regular blank decks. If I were to make new graphics, I would get them printed in the USA like I've always done, and I would put them on my own decks like I've always done. Why cover up a China deck with one of my graphics and say it's mine? That's kind of lying and misleading to my customers in my opinion. If I make new graphics, I'd rather put them on the decks I made.

3) You all would be surprised how little of products are created by the actual owners of the companies these days. Mainly because it's too hard to make everything yourself when demand increases. Being as it may I still plan to always produce my own decks, and if I hire some help I'll make sure we're still making the decks together in Homewood, and not outsourcing like many other companies do.

By the way here's a graphic that was sent to Todd and me from a manufacturer in China. See if you recognize the logo on it..


Now don't get me wrong sometimes outsourcing is necessary because it's physically impossible to do everything yourself. That's how businesses increase profits. But I just sometimes get frustrated how people act like certain companies make everything themselves in-house, as if they are up 24/7 gluing and sanding decks and machining wheels, and building ramps and sewing shirts and bags and what not. Almost every time it's being OUTSOURCED!! And some companies are perfectly ok with outsourcing 100% of their products, and those companies are stealing much needed business from me, Todd, BW, and other companies. You saw how Thomas Hansen got laid off right? Why do you think that is? Because he wanted to go on permanent Holiday?

Business is cut throat 99.9% of the time, and the most sad thing is that most consumers don't care where anything is made or how it's made, as long as it won't put a big dent in their wallet. I'm trying to stay competitive with whatever means I have. Again I made maybe $300 profit in the past 2 months. So I can't exactly afford to make my own graphics and print them myself, since those printers cost about $50,000 and no one prints their own graphics (at least heat transfer graphics anyways). So given what I have I'm trying to fight to stay in the game, and I'll always strive to stay true to my principles along the way.

Oh and one last thing, since 2007 I've been the only employee in my company basically. My parents help when they can with stickers or helping me keep track of expenses, but I'm still in charge of keeping track of sales, posting on Facebook, twitter, etc., filming videos, editing videos, uploading videos, taking pictures of decks, uploading pictures, shipping and packaging, answering personal and business emails, responding to YouTube messages and comments, coming up with park designs, hosting events, sponsoring events, sponsoring a team of riders, and last of all (assuming I didn't forget anything just now), making every deck myself by hand! Add in a full-time teaching job which I did the past 3 years and it's not exactly the easiest thing to do, and then add in a bunch of new companies who are just buying everything pre-made from China and reselling them which basically undermines everything I have done since I started Homewood, and then you get into the situation where selling China decks isn't such a bad idea. And now you want me to make new graphics just for these specific decks that I didn't even make? C'mon you're killin' me Smalls! lol.

Holy Harrier

Nice sample haha

By the way I edited my post with one last paragraph which hopefully helps paint a better picture of what it's like to run a fingerboard company by yourself lol. I'm in no way asking for pity, just asking for a little understanding. I knew what I was getting in to when I quit teaching, and I still believe it was the right decision because despite all the work I'm doing I'm still incredibly happy to be able to provide to the fingerboard community and be a part of it. I just wanted to shed a little bit of light on the business aspect of it, because it's not all fun and games lol.

I think you're living the dream Justin. You're doing what you love for a job man. You may not make a ton of money but that's part of the whole thing like you mentioned.

on da right
makes me cringe lol

Haha yeah that's the one.. again I don't want to hate on them for doing this, what I hate is when BW fanboys or whoever give other people crap as if BRR is some holy company that makes 100% of their products themselves in Germany. I'm sure Timo sits at a sewing machine every day for hours and sews flashbone bags by himself.. lol it's funny to even think that! Timo's hands would fall off if he did that, so if he can outsource it then he should! But then you get into where you decide to have them made, what you're paying to have them made, and what % markup you decide to use and that's when people have different opinions and I don't want to get into that right now...

JRskatr wrote:

Haha yeah that's the one.. again I don't want to hate on them for doing this, what I hate is when BW fanboys or whoever give other people crap as if BRR is some holy company that makes 100% of their products themselves in Germany. I'm sure Timo sits at a sewing machine every day for hours and sews flashbone bags by himself.. lol it's funny to even think that! Timo's hands would fall off if he did that, so if he can outsource it then he should! But then you get into where you decide to have them made, what you're paying to have them made, and what % markup you decide to use and that's when people have different opinions and I don't want to get into that right now...

Just curious, as you seem to know more on this subject than anyone here, are BRT's made in china? Winklers? Just curious.

SamW wrote:

JRskatr wrote:

Haha yeah that's the one.. again I don't want to hate on them for doing this, what I hate is when BW fanboys or whoever give other people crap as if BRR is some holy company that makes 100% of their products themselves in Germany. I'm sure Timo sits at a sewing machine every day for hours and sews flashbone bags by himself.. lol it's funny to even think that! Timo's hands would fall off if he did that, so if he can outsource it then he should! But then you get into where you decide to have them made, what you're paying to have them made, and what % markup you decide to use and that's when people have different opinions and I don't want to get into that right now...

Just curious, as you seem to know more on this subject than anyone here, are BRT's made in china? Winklers? Just curious.

Timo deff hand makes those

SamW wrote:

JRskatr wrote:

Haha yeah that's the one.. again I don't want to hate on them for doing this, what I hate is when BW fanboys or whoever give other people crap as if BRR is some holy company that makes 100% of their products themselves in Germany. I'm sure Timo sits at a sewing machine every day for hours and sews flashbone bags by himself.. lol it's funny to even think that! Timo's hands would fall off if he did that, so if he can outsource it then he should! But then you get into where you decide to have them made, what you're paying to have them made, and what % markup you decide to use and that's when people have different opinions and I don't want to get into that right now...

Just curious, as you seem to know more on this subject than anyone here, are BRT's made in china? Winklers? Just curious.

I would really prefer not to answer this question.. But I do know that in the US you need a special license to pour liquid hot metal at a certain temperature then you would need your own foundry (which is a huge building by itself). I'm not sure of the laws in other countries but it's highly dangerous to make your own trucks unless you're machining each truck by itself which no one does. So you can make your own judgment but I am going to plead the 5th on that one lol.

About Winklers I don't know but it's fairly easy to find a local machinist to make wheels for you. From what I know Jerome V. was the only person to machine his own wheels. I think Brandon Jones gave it a go once a long time ago but Jerome was the only one who made his own high-quality wheels. I'm not 100% sure if Martin ever made his own wheels but I would venture to guess no or at least not now because of the high demand. It wouldn't make sense for him to make every set by hand unless he had his own CNC or another way to make them efficiently. But CNC machines cost thousands of dollars or more.. commercial ones are usually $50,000 or $100,000 or more.

I was actually referring to doing new graphics for Homewood decks and not the China ones so that more people will buy and collect the decks you make so that you hopefully won't have to sell much China stuff anymore.

I was actually volunteering to make a few graphics for Homewood decks without asking for anything in return because I want to help since the Kickstarter doesn't look like it's going through. It's not pity. I really appreciate Homewood as a company for all that you do, and I just wanted to see it grow even more from here and I wanted to try to do something to give back too.

If you're still interested in that you can shoot me a PM or message me on Facebook, I guess. If you're not it's fine too.

^Yeah I mean that's definitely something we can talk about, I'm supposed to be working on a new graphic with one of my friends but I just haven't had any sort of time lately. I'm reading a huge book right now on advertising so I can better advertise on the internet, and I'm supposed to help a friend shoot a music video for his band lol. Then I gotta plan for the IFC 2013 and make a bunch of decks for that. But if you want to send me a PM with some of your work I'll definitely look at them and get back to you! Thanks so much for the kind gesture man it really means a lot!

Man, youre kinda destroying berlinwood and blackriver for me hahaha and probably for some other people too. I kinda knew they werent all made in one place but all this new info and details saying winklers are not actually made by winkler and Berlinwoods are printed in china is just kinda killing me inside. I started fingerboarding a long time ago and winklers being made by winkler or berlinwoods being made in berlin is just kinda what i grew up knowing or thinking. Its kinda like growing up thinking santa clause is real and then one day you find out its all a farce.